Consultation outcome

Responses to Consultation Feedback

Updated 12 July 2023

1. ETO - Distributed Control Systems.

No feedback requiring a response was received for the module ETO - Distributed Control Systems.

2. Marine Engineering - Engineering Mathematics 2

Role	Second Engineer
Organisation	National Ferry Company
Module	Marine Engineering - Engineering Mathematics 2
Your Feedback - Outcome 1	I have to say that during my career I have used almost none of the mathmatical concepts described above. Maths is a bit like the welding we did during our cadet workshop time, if you don’t use it you loose the skill. However it’s a lot easier to get refamiliar with welding that it is mathmatical formula’s. Consideration should be given to stretching the maths out over the whole subject and not just a class early on and once it’s completed it’s never used again.
SG 1.2 Response	Many thanks for your feedback, it has been noted. To understand mechanical principles and thermodynamic principles, mathematics is essential. Therefore, this is a topic that we have received general support for from the working group and industry feedback.
Your Feedback - Outcome 2	N/A
SG 1.2 Response	N/A
Your Feedback - Outcome 3	This seem’s to be backwards, the outcome is to use these concepts to solve engineering problems. However, the action is to show how they are used onboard ship. If these is not obvious from the engineering problems in the outcomes, then I would be suggesting that the maths engineers need in the operation and mainteance of a vessel is not being taught. Would it not be better to fully understand what maths engineers use on regular and infrequent basis in the course of there duties and make sure that cadets are well versed in these skills. Rather than trying to teach advanced maths, then come up with how it might be used onboard?
SG 1.2 Response	Many thanks for your feedback. We agree with your comments, hence the emphasis on contextualising mathematics to onboard use for trouble shooting and problem solving.
Your Feedback - Outcome 4	We are not IT engineers and we would not be involved in comples network and data processing.
SG 1.2 Response	Many thanks for your feedback, it has been noted. Matrices is an easier way to understand and solve complex problems. However, this is a topic that we have received general support for from the working group and industry feedback.
Your Feedback - Outcomes Above and Beyond	N/A
SG 1.2 Response	N/A
Your Proposed Outcome	N/A
Your Rationale for this outcome	N/A
Your Action for this outcome	N/A
SG 1.2 Response	N/A

3. ETO - Marine Engineering Electrical and Electronic Devices

No feedback requiring a response was received for the module ETO - Marine Engineering Electrical and Electronic Devices.

4. Marine Engineering - Marine Legislation and Leadership

Role	Second Engineer
Organisation	National Ferry Company
Module	Marine Engineering - Marine Legislation and Leadership
Your Feedback - Outcome 1	When teaching the same subjects at the same level there should be no difference in the material and layout being used.
SG 1.2 Response	Many thanks for your feedback. We are in agreement with your comment and have attempted to reflect this by bringing this module in line with the Deck equivalent.
Your Feedback - Outcome 2	N/A
SG 1.2 Response	N/A
Your Feedback - Outcome 3	3.1 - Needs to cover the different types of management styles and when different styles have advantages over others. 3.2 - Assertiveness is not mentioned in the deck section changes. Assestiveness and authority are different. This section should cover assertiveness in making sure cadets understand their rights as seafarers and under the MLC and how to go about ensuring they are enforced and grievence procedures if they are not. 3.3 - Situational awareness is not mentioned in the deck section changes. Situational awarness is important in making descisions and well as understanding how changes affect the overall plant/ship. Simulator excersies would be a great way to highlight the improtance of situational awreness and to impove cadets ability. 3.4 - Recent written exam feedback shows that engineers struggle to write both reports and letters, the importance of written communication should not be underestimated and the sylibus should cover this. 3.8 - There is no mention in the section on communication either in the engine or deck section changes about multicultural crews, language and cultural differences. These can have a major impact on communication and cadets and officers must be able to understand these differences and how they affect communication, teambuilding and leadership.
SG 1.2 Response	Many thanks for your feedback. While we agree that different styles of management need to be covered, as well as their advantages/ disadvantages, this would now be covered in outcome 3.2, “Principles of management adopted on-board ship”. Although authority and assertiveness are not explicitly mentioned in any of the sub-outcomes from the deck module, they would be covered as part of the indicative content within outcomes 3.2 and 3.3, we shall make this explicitly clear within the guidance document. Situational awareness and decision making should certainly be covered within this module and we have reinstated an outcome to reflect this, many thanks for raising it to our attention. Communication, and more specifically written communication, are certainly important skills which are required by seafarers. However, it has been identified by the working group that they are covered indicatively in almost all of the outcomes within this module as core competencies. In addition, within outcome 3.4 of the Deck module we have included the following suggestion, “The importance of communication in maintaining safety Recognising how procedures, policies and culture impact safety” which, we believe, would cover your comment on outcome 3.8
Your Feedback - Outcome 4	4.2 This should cover documents and other items which can be subpeaoned and used as evidence, and how they can be used in courts and how that may affect those who have filled in or signed such documents. 4.6 This should include the role of ILO, ITF and union organisations.
SG 1.2 Response	Many thanks for your feedback, it has been noted. We agree with your comment on outcome 4.2, however, this is already covered within the indicative content of the module. With regards to your comments on outcome 4.6, ILO/ ITF would be covered in outcome 5.3. However, we are in agreement that the role of unions should be covered within this outcome and we will add it.
Your Feedback - Outcome 5	5.1 Must include the legal implications of the role of safety officer. 5.5 as mention in 2.6 cadets must be aware of what can constitute evidence, this should also cover the implications for disposal and falsification of evidence. It should also include what cadets and junior officers should do if they receive verbal or written instructions to carry out a action they beleive is unlawful.
SG 1.2 Response	Many thanks for your feedback, it has been noted. Please be advised that the role of the Safety Officer is defined within outcome 3.1, “Shipboard and shoreside management structures” We are in agreement that these aspects should be covered in outcome 5.5 and this will be reflected in the academic guidance modules.
Your Feedback - Outcomes Above and Beyond	1-There definately needs to be something to inform the cadets of their career options in the industry. When I was a cadet there was very little about this at all, After reaching the top ranks we were told you could become a superindendant, but that was as far as careers talk went. This should not be reliant on the sponsoring companies. 3- How the law and human elements interact is a key factor in this unit. Seafarers can be affected as witnesses, suspects and plaintiffs and under each of these categories the seafarer will be treated differently and it is important that they know both their rights and obligations under each circumstance.
SG 1.2 Response	Many thanks for your feedback, we are in agreement with your comments and hope to have addressed both points through our existing suggestions.
Your Proposed Outcome	N/A
Your Rationale for this outcome	N/A
Your Action for this outcome	N/A
SG 1.2 Response	N/A

5. Marine Engineering - Management

Role	Second Engineer
Organisation	National Ferry Company
Module	Marine Engineering - Management
Your Feedback - Outcome 1	As long as a gap analysis has been done to make sure important and relevant information reguarding engineers is not removed when restructuring this subject to aling with the Deck subject structure.
SG 1.2 Response	Many thanks you for your feedback, it has been noted. The intention is to involve all officers on board to have general management skills and it is considered to be important that all officers understand the same legal and management concepts. Please note that Engineering specific skills are covered in the “Safety Engineering and the Environment” module
Your Feedback - Outcome 2	Again, a gap analysis should be carried out to ensure that information specific to engineers is not lost when carrying out these recommendations.
SG 1.2 Response	Many thanks you for your feedback, it has been noted. The intention is to involve all officers on board to have general management skills and it is considered to be important that all officers understand the same legal and management concepts. Please note that Engineering specific skills are covered in the “Safety Engineering and the Environment” module
Your Feedback - Outcome 3	N/A
SG 1.2 Response	N/A
Your Feedback - Outcome 4	N/A
SG 1.2 Response	N/A
Your Feedback - Outcome 5	In the deck section which is refered to 1.1 it states “Explore the concept of Management v leadership” this should be expanded to “ Management v Leadership v Command” Or at the very least the different styles, there positives and negatives and situations where they might be most effective. It also needs to be explored that different approaches may be required to get the best out of every individual.
SG 1.2 Response	Thanks for your feedback. We agree with your comments. These items will be covered through indicative content of the module to express these elements and we have noted on the module templates.
Your Feedback - Outcome 6	Neither this document or the equivelant deck document provides any information or what is currently taught. This section should be covering cost codes, forecasting, basic book balancing, and how to use excel as a budgeting and cost tracking tool.
SG 1.2 Response	Many thanks for your feedback. We agree with your comments and when we finalise the Management syllabus for all officers, we will ensure that these concepts will be included for all.
Your Feedback - Outcome 7	7.2 - 3.3 in the deck document. Nowhere does this mention fatigue, fatigue management and awareness are a key tool in safety cultures. Reflect upon the limitations of various safety culture tools such as LTI counters and reporting targets, being able to understand the different maturity’s of Safety Management Systems and Cultures. Understand BBS tools.
SG 1.2 Response	Many thanks for your feedback, it has been noted. While we agree that these topics should be covered we believe they already are. Fatigue would be covered under “Demonstrate an understanding of factors which enhance and impact on seafarer wellbeing and mental health as well as compromising safety on board, including what resources are available to help self and others “. In addition, the ability to reflect upon the limitations of safety culture tools would be covered within “Demonstrate the ability to evaluate and implement policies and procedures applicable to their role. “ and touched on in other suggestions on outcome 3.3 in Deck 10c.
Your Feedback - Outcomes Above and Beyond	Data science, The finance unit will be largely data and IT drive and it is important to fully use this to ensure cadets have the required IT skills, especially excel to use, understand and create excel budget tools.
SG 1.2 Response	Many thanks you for your feedback. We are in agreement and will ensure this is included within the remit of Data Science.

6. Marine Engineering - Safety Engineering and the Environment

No feedback requiring a response was received for the module Marine Engineering - Safety Engineering and the Environment.

7. ETO - Electrical Motors and Generators

No feedback requiring a response was received for the module ETO - Electrical Motors and Generators.

8. Marine Engineering - Ship Construction and Survey

No feedback requiring a response was received for the module Marine Engineering - Ship Construction and Survey.