PABEW meeting minutes, 30 April 2024
Updated 4 September 2024
Applies to England and Wales
© Crown copyright 2024
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Police Advisory Board for England and Wales (PABEW)
30 April 2024, 10:30 to 12:30
Members present via video conference
Independent Chair
Julia Mulligan
PABEW Secretariat
Chris Moore
Police Federation of England and Wales (PFEW)
- John Partington
- Melanie Warnes
- Bahar Munim
Police Superintendents’ Association (PSA)
- Dan Murphy
- Warren Franklin
Chief Police Officers’ Staff Association (CPOSA)
- Gareth Wilson
- Shabir Hussain
National Police Chiefs’ Council (NPCC)
- Stella Brooks
- Andy Fittes
- Clair Alcock
Home Office (HO)
- Emma Plummer
- Tom Appleyard
- Sally Hasselby
College of Policing (CoP)
- Sandy Purewal
- Thomas Grove
Met Police
Mark Pomroy
Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC)
Stephen Oakley
Association of Police and Crime Commissioners (APCC)
Andrew Tremayne
His Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary and Fire and Rescue Services (HMICFRS)
Lois Ainger
Met Trade Union
Valerie Harris
Welcome and apologies
1. The Chair noted apologies from Calum Macleod (PFEW),Katherine Riley (HMICFRS) and Duncan Slade (PSA). The Chair welcomed Warren Franklin (PSA) the new PSA national secretary from 4 July 2024.
Minutes of the meeting 6 February 2024
2. Minutes were agreed from the 6 February 2024 meeting.
Action Point 1: Secretariat to finalise minutes of 6 February 2024 meeting and publish on the webpage. Action Complete
Action log of 6 February 2024
Action Point 2: The Chair to hold a follow up meeting with Clair Alcock (NPCC) and Jeremy Vaughan (NPCC) to discuss the outcomes of the Chief Council regarding SAB funding structures.
3. The Chair said she would provide an update under the SAB item and the action could be closed.
Action Point 3: Andy Fittes (NPCC) to circulate revised guidance on Police Officer and Staff Secondments before next PABEW meeting.
4. The Chair said the action would be discussed under the secondment’s agenda item.
Outstanding action points from previous meetings
26 July 2023 - Action Point 3: Stella Brooks (NPCC) to speak to Janette McCormick (CoP) on PSA’s concern over the lack of data collected on the implementation of the vetting code and how it could impact officers.
5. Stella Brooks (NPCC) said the Chief Constable Kennedy group in Merseyside and the Gold Group were working on producing the relevant data and was unsure how close the PSA were with that group.
6. Warren Franklin (PSA) noted the old date of the action and said he would pick up with Stella Brooks (NPCC) and Dan Murphy PSA) outside of the meeting. The chair closed the action.
NPCC update – PABEW secondment guidance
7. Andy Fittes (NPCC) was optimistic about finalising the secondment guidance but acknowledged ongoing delays.
8. The revised draft of the guidance was circulated to the working group, and feedback was requested by 13 May 2024.
9. Efforts were made to streamline the guidance, removing unnecessary or duplicated content to modernise it. Additional feedback from an NPCC group with a counterterrorism remit highlighted the need for an equality impact assessment, which would be circulated before the next meeting.
10. A suggestion from the group was made to use the finalisation of the guidance as an opportunity to publicise the benefits of secondments and encourage applications in fields like counterterrorism where there’s a shortage of applicants.
11. Andy Fittes (NPCC) said the goal was to sign off on the guidance at the next meeting formally.
12. The Chair acknowledged the extensive process the guidance has undergone and thanked Andy Fittes (NPCC) for his efforts.
13. John Partington (PFEW) raised concerns regarding existing agreements with higher allowances, overtime policies, shift pattern rights, and working time directive issues.
14. Andy Fittes (NPCC) agreed to address these concerns, ensuring no detriment to those on existing contracts and clarifying policies on overtime and shift patterns in the guidance.
15. The Chair asked for a chronology timeline. Andy Fittes (NPCC) said he would provide one. (action: complete)
Action Point 2: Andy Fittes (NPCC) will work towards formal sign-off for PABEW Secondment guidance at the next PABEW meeting.
Home Office consultation on proposed amendments to update police employer contribution rates
16. The Chair noted the documents had been circulated on the employer contribution rates, and the SAB needed to decide how to respond before the 13 May 2024 deadline.
17. Clair Alcock (NPCC) said it was a relatively simple consultation to change the regulations to tie the employer contribution rate with whatever the valuation findings were.
18. PABEW Members had no comment. The Chair noted that, as it was funded, the response was relatively straightforward. But she may choose to draft a reply.
Police Pensions: UK Police Pensions Consultative Forum and Scheme Advisory Board update
19. The Chair noted at the SAB on 28 March 2024 Craig Moran (First Actuarial) provided an update on the actuarial care revaluation and the issues concerning date discrepancies.
20. The Chair inquired if Gareth Wilson (CPOSA) or Shabir Hussain (CPOSA) could confirm the agreement with the HO regarding the timeline for addressing the issues.
21. Gareth Wilson (CPOSA) confirmed the need to finalise the timeline, referencing Helen Fisher’s (HO) briefing note summarising the discussion. He stated that the target date for completion is April 2026, unless significant issues arose.
22. Shabir Hussain (CPOSA) added that April 2026 was chosen to align with the least volatility between inflation measures, ensuring minimal impact on members. Delaying beyond this would result in renewed discrepancies.
23. The Chair emphasised the importance of defining the necessary steps and timeline to meet the April 2026 deadline.
24. Clair Alcock (NPCC) confirmed the April 2026 deadline but stressed clarity that it is a completion target, not a starting date.
25. Tom Appleyard (HO) was asked to confirm and provide an indicative timeline. He agreed to check with his team and report back with a detailed schedule of the necessary steps and progress milestones.
Action Point 3: Tom Appleyard (HO) will confirm the agreed target date of April 2026 and provide a detailed timeline of the actuarial care revaluation.
26. The Chair noted that the Action point taken by the SAB to write to the HO was not necessary, and actually, the Home Office was to tell the PAB what would happen.
Future of SAB
27. The Chair noted that Jeremy Vaughan (NPCC) had put together a business case going to the chief’s council, which was based on pension management and governance infrastructure. A full-time resource would be made available to support the SAB by April next year, subject to the approval from Chiefs.
PABEW discipline sub-committee update
28. On the dismissals review, the Chair noted that tranche one changes would come into force on 7 May 2024. The changes primarily included the composition of the misconduct panel changes.
29. On the tranche 2 Reforms, The Chair said the consultation was initially hoped to commence the week of 15 April. But an update from Tom Cherry (HO) said publication was expected soon and was awaiting clearance from HO lawyers.
30. On the Criminal Justice Bill, the government did not support the proposed amendment requiring officers to hand over personal phones. The Chair acknowledged that a clear response was received from the Minister on the matter.
31. Andrew Tremayne (APCC) said it would be helpful to schedule a specific meeting of the Disciplinary subcommittee to consider the draft regulations.
32. The Chair agreed and said it would benefit the PABEW formal response.
Action Point 4: DSC will hold a meeting to discuss the response to the Tranche 2 consultation.
Home Office legislation update
33. The Chair acknowledged a lack of items for PABEW on the Legislation tracker and suggested that PABEW just note the HO tracker at meetings. However, if any specific items were relevant to PABEW, Emma Plummer (HO) would attend and provide an update.
34. Emma Plummer (HO) and PABEW members agreed with the proposal.
AOB
35. The Chair observed the date of the next meeting was scheduled for 25 July 2024.