Guidance

VAPC south west England: meeting minutes 11 July 2023

Updated 4 December 2024

Meeting time

10am

Meeting location

Mount House, Taunton, Somerset

Attendance

Committee members attending:

• Chris Rose (CR, Vice Chair; Chairing)
• Anica Alvarez Nishio (AAN; Minutes)
• Michael Bryan (MB)
• Philip Orr (PO)
• Guy Williams (GW)
• Duncan Tilley (DT)
• Tony Thompson (TT)

Guests:

• Janine Whitley (Help for Heroes), Veterans Clinical Advisor

Apologies:

• Jeff Spencer (JS, Chair)
• Kieran Bird (KB)
• Rachael Brannagan (RB)
• Hamilton Elliott (HE)
• Ben Obese-Jesty (BOJ)
• Andrew Ottaway (AO)
• Franklin Owusu-Antwi (FOA)
• Emlyn Phennah (EP)
• David Wood (DW)

Minutes

Chair’s introduction and welcome (CR)

CR welcomed all attendees, thanked everyone for the effort they made to attend, explained JS was unable to attend for personal reasons, and introduced Janine Whitley from Help for Heroes.

Lee Bushby and Charlies Radclyffe have stood down from the VAPC SW Committee. The Committee extended their heartfelt thanks to the two outgoing members and acknowledged their commitment and enthusiastic support following their appointment. FOA is coming to the end of his term and will become co-opted upon his term ending.  FOA was thanked in absentia for his work on behalf of the committee during his terms, and in advance for his coming service.

CR explained recruitment will take place during Q3/4 2023.  The advertisement is currently being written, and VAPC SW will recruit up to 6 new members.  More discussion of skill sets and other qualities for which VAPC SW will be recruiting follows below.  

CR thanked TT for taking and producing a record of the April 2023 Quarterly Meeting; thanked AAN in advance for taking and producing the July ones; and thanked GW for arranging the meeting facilities.

Conflicts of interest (CR)

It was noted that, while a great deal of the value individual members bring to the VAPC comes as the result of their professional and private networks and personal lived experience, it is important for accountability and transparency for members to inform the Committee of real or perceived conflicts of interest in related matters and to indicate in every case whether they are acting as committee representatives or as private individuals.

AAN has been appointed Vice Chair of the National Institute of Health and Social Care Excellence Quality Standards Advisory Committee; PO has joined the Civil Service Armed Forces Network and attended Veterans in Business (VIB) event; TT is now an associate member of Whistleblowers UK.  None of these was considered a conflict or potential conflict.

Review of actions outstanding from last meeting

• Outstanding action: The Minister for Defence People, Veterans and Service Families is responsible for issuing individual appointment letters and therefore it is appropriate that the Minister recognises each unpaid public appointment on completion of service. This was reiterated as an issue of national importance. TT volunteered to draft letter (with an accompanying suggested ‘certificate of service’, which should be personally signed by the Minister) to be sent to the Minister by JS asking that ministerial public appointments to the VAPC be recognised upon completion of their term (or extended term) of office.  Afternote: CR suggested adding this to the VAPC SW Annual Report to the Minister.

• Action: JS to write to Minister

Janine Whitley (JW), Help for Heroes (H4H) and Veteran Health Roadshow

H4H Veterans Clinical Advisor JW noted all H4H nurses at her level or above have highly specialist training, and gave a brief precis of her service (Navy 20 years, deployed to Afghanistan, has worked on ships, in Army hospital units, left just before Covid) and an overview of her work with H4H.  1,322 service people left in the last year (physical and psychological reasons), which averages to approximately 4 per day.  It was noted, however, that this does not take into account the effects this has on spouses, children, parents and the service leaver’s wider circle.

Mental health issues tend to surface after 2 years. Her team (and H4H) provide 360° support (biological, social, psychological) and a range of services during their recovery journey.  Anyone can refer themselves or someone else. Service leaver (SL) gets triaged, and JW often reaches out personally, to discuss options and encourage SLs of the assistance available. Then there is a thorough assessment (1 hr, capped) during which JW looks at the SL’s priorities.  Helps them develop these along SMART goals, next actions, hare/tortoise journey.  H4H provides help navigating the complexity of the NHS landscape. H4H can help guide GPs towards what help and resources are available.  JW gave a number of practical examples of what she and her team can do, highlighting their specialist knowledge of interlocking systems.

H4H has changed approach from Recovery Centres to Community Delivery, which has been beneficial getting resource out to the people that need it in the locations where the SLs are. Q&A followed the brief.  MB asked whether JW get referrals from GPs. JW: GPs interested, but not as many referrals coming in that direction. MB commended her for going into the Royal Colleges to inform training.  JW noted she also does GP training. MB asked about ME and chronic illness and how that works from H4H perspective.  JW said if condition was from service, they work through Blesma.  If not from service, can only work through NHS pathways, but can assist with either pathway.  JW noted H4H is starting MS online network.  TT asked about the wider veterans landscape, and general discussion followed.

JW then briefed on Veterans Health Roadshow, which at its core is a directory of service providers, through which her team collect data and feedback. It has been extremely effective, but at the moment is highly reliant on her work and energy.  It needs funding and other forms of support to be sustainable going forward. CR suggested VAPC could potentially help making connections through their ties to local government: Partnership Boards, local govt, local charities. PO felt there were lots of potentially easy wins. DT asked about how much contract funding from local authorities H4H receives.  JW said she did not know, and this was a question for others in H4H.

Other points of note: Use of the word ‘Heroes’ can be controversial– people don’t always feel very hero like.  It was noted VAPC has a similar issue with its name.  DT asked JW views.  Perception is H4H is for younger veterans.  This is a misperception.  CR asked about ‘Veterans Aware’ being listed on GP surgeries websites and elsewhere.  JW not aware of any consistent strategy but would look into it.  PO noted ‘Troopr’ is a (new) one-stop shop; in slight competition with Veterans Gateway.  Further discussion of complexity of third sector support for Veterans.

CR asked about one message to go back to government.  JW noted there is nothing for spouse, which is a real gap and a real worry.  Ripple Pond does a bit, but not enough.  There is not any bespoke 360° degree support.  CR noted this should be raised to Minister in Annual Report.  JW to link CR to her boss for further discussion.  CR noted that London leading on Transition.  Will forward information on and contacts for this to JW.  JW warmly thanked.  JW left the meeting.

Actions:

• To speak with JW boss and gather further information on spousal need
• To raise need for spousal support in Annual Report to Minister
• To forward details of Transition work to JW

Chair’s Update / Strategic Situation

NCVC

• CR noted that the national VAPC piece continues to move forward, with increasing activity.  He referred everyone to report he has circulated from last NCVC (Chairs) meeting, and suggested everyone read item 5: David Richmond’s update (close hold) on Lindsay Alexander’s Veterans Services review.  CR noted Brig Caroline Hull has made great strides in reorganising and reinvigorating Vets UK, though she will be departing in next few months. Six candidates, two from each service, are being interviewed to replace her, which CR saw as very hopeful.  Her replacement should be in post by autumn, which will align well with the outcome of Alexander’s review.  [Afternote: Brig Hull will now handover in December]

MOD Covenant

• Covenant team making presentation to Local Authorities (LA)today at 16:00, which ought to significantly improve LAs ability to support the Covenant.

Annual Report to Min DPV&F

• CR asked members who have written to charities and Local Authorities but not had a reply to please chase.  (So far only Plymouth and Devon have replied.)  GW noted that Somerset not operating effectively at the moment.  CR asked that GW please chase nonetheless.  DT noted that a personal link or contact is key, and suggest that members find out who the officer supporting the councillor is, as these are often the most effective people with whom to speak.  CR noted he sent an email to Devon CC, then rang straightaway to say that the email was waiting in the inbox.  This was effective.  TT noted that he is using the Minister’s two questions as a slide in presentations to defence and veteran audiences and has had a few people come up to ask him for further information as they realised our Report might affect funding.  This was another effective strategy.

Action: To chase feedback from Charities and Local Authorities

National Armed Forces Day (NAFD) – follow on actions

• JS and CR attended NAFD and found it very interesting.  Attended by lots of charities, local covenant teams.  Lots of robust discussion about how to ensure long-term impact, working on topics over time.

Action: To circulate follow-on actions

Charity Funding and Cost of Living Grant

CR noted that, anecdotally, charities not attracting the same level of funding, but beneficiary need is rising.  This diminution of funding was supported by the evidence given by JW in her report.  CR noted this should be added to the  Annual Report, however more evidence needed.  CR asked how VAPC SW can pick up data to support this?  Wide ranging discussion followed, regarding the profile of the military in civilian society, how changes in society may be affecting this now and in the future.   Discussed outreach, civilian-military dialogue, and how to improve communications and mutual understanding, need to take messaging beyond recruitment.   It was noted there is no institution charged with maintaining public support for military. It was noted there was an impending wave of mental health issues on the horizon, as well as other forms of growing need as, regardless of which government comes into power next, there are fewer (and reducing) resources available leading to austerity, which will drive work away from current work and work over past 10 years, and that difficult decisions will need to be made.

Skillset review / Recruiting report

MB briefed on the results of the survey he ran May-July 2023.  He thanked the group for taking the time to reply.  Received 12 (of 14 possible) responses (13 by end of meeting).  The purpose of the survey was to take a benchmark of current members’ skills and thus identify gaps, to aid both with training and recruitment.  He has circulated slides of the findings (re-circulated with these Minutes).  Please look at these for details.  High level findings as follows:

Essential skills:

• Administration / IT / Data: Modern platforms and professional support would be extremely helpful.  Could we have workshops and / or training sessions?  Could we have regular briefing from subject matter experts?  A discussion followed as to how, under current resource constraint, effective and cost-effective training could be sourced.   A decision was taken to invite subject matter experts to the Tuesday Monthly Meetings, and all members were asked to propose experts to JS, copy other members, from their networks and/or relating to their sphere of interest.  (See further discussion below)

Actions:
- To propose one subject matter expert (see below)
- To schedule experts through end of year

• Knowledge of Veterans Affairs / Legal Matters: Could we have easily accessible and understandable information on the claims process?  Could we develop simple case studies?  CR noted that Brig Hull has asked Vets UK to produce process maps and flow charts.

Actions:
- To contact Vets UK for process maps and circulate
- To develop a simple case study for circulation, to see if further case studies would be of value

• Patience / empathy / advocacy – This could be improved by exposure to VA stories. Case studies could potentially help with this (see above and below).

• Networking influence / strategic leadership – There was collective agreement that it would be helpful to have a group calendar onto which all members could add networking and outreach events  with government, public-sector organisations and veterans community groups.

Action: To research/establish calendar

• Communication / active listening / report writing – There was collective agreement that it would be useful to have workshops or other training on effective report writing, effective feedback mechanisms/systems. (see also point below)

• Understanding trends / strategic thinking – There was collective agreement that we should also begin accessing training and developing mechanisms to track longer-term trends, so that we can propose longer-term initiatives.  PO noted that government planning/funding tend to work 4-5 years ahead. The Civil Service College (or similar) may have resources we can access.  Given that resources will be limited, we need to set priorities of what training we will focus on first.

• Priority skills to develop would be: IT proficiency; knowledge of pensions and appeals process; knowledge of casework; understanding of the HMG ecosystem with regards to Veterans affairs, especially housing; data management and statistical analysis (in its most basic form, so that we can begin collecting the correct data; once that is established, skills in analysis).  CR noted that this should be fed back into the Chairs meetings, as it was likely that other VAPC regions required the same training and this might be managed by the sponsor department as part of onboarding or continuity training.

Action: To research available training and feedback/make proposals

Recruiting

Recruiting will take place in Autumn 2023.  VAPC SW will recruit for up to 6 members.  It has been acknowledged that the process has been delayed in the past.  There is an intention to speed things up. 

Interview panel is made up of three interviewers: one member (usually the Chair), plus one MOD representative and one external interviewer.  It would be advantageous if there were a diversity of faces/backgrounds/experience on the interview panel to reflect not just where SW is, but also where we would like to head. 

We each need to reach out to key contacts and actively recruit through focused channels, targeting those we feel to be of richest value. CR and AAN to do a bit of brainstorming. 

Action: To have initial discussion about recruitment outreach and interview process

Wider VAPC advert will be finalised end of August.  We can include additional information about specific VAPC SW needs. It was agreed by all that the recruitment document should more accurately reflect the role, so that potential members have a more realistic understanding of what is involved in serving. Skill set comments made by SW in survey will be taken on board. Skills we would like to recruit for are:

• Knowledge of local government
• Private sector experience
• Diversity of gender, ethnicity, class, protected characteristics
• Lived experience of AFCS or service injury
• Civilians
• Marketing and PR
• Data analysis
• Policy creation
• Maximising virtual working
• Legal expertise
• Administrative expertise (not necessarily to do admin, but to
• Established networks across the SW (not necessarily in the Veteran space)

Action: To draft two items : (1) addition to JS advert; (2) something all members can (consistently) put out on their social media and to their networks.  AAN to draft, then circulate for comment and revision.

It was noted by all that the number one response when questions about barriers to effectiveness as an organisation was regional administrative support.

Action: To feed elements of the survey response and this discussion into NCVC centre and Report to Minister, specifically: training requirement and administrative requirement to draw out maximum value.  

TT noted that he has contact with a specialist lawyer to Armed Forces community, based in Chippenham, who may be willing to be co-opted so they could get experience of VAPC SW before the upcoming recruitment round.  There was a discussion as to whether there might be a conflict of interest, but this was felt to be non-existent or manageable.  CR noted that JS had also recently made contact with solicitors offering pro-bono legal support to veterans, who may also be willing to be co-opted.

Action: To discuss with his contact whether they would be willing to be co-opted, and if so to put that into process with immediate effect.

Working Lunch

Warm thanks were extended to GW and Eileen for sourcing a delicious fish and chips lunch at short notice, when previous catering let us down.

SW Member Partnering and Forward Meeting Schedule

Over lunch a discussion was had about revising the ‘battle rhythm’ of meetings. These were established four years ago just before the start of Covid and it was felt, while still valuable, needed updating. 

Drop-in weekly chat: Members saw the value of these meetings, but felt it was important to (a) keep it to 30 minutes, (b) focus on quick updates and benchmarking, leaving socialising and more substantive topics to other meetings, (c) acknowledged that the time may not be convenient for all and there is no requirement to attend.  Thursdays were felt not to be terribly convenient.

Decision: Change day from Thursday to Friday, stick with start time of 8.30am, hard stop at 9am. Starting week of Friday 21 July.

Tuesday monthly meetings: Members saw the value of these, but felt they needed more specific focus and a slightly later start time and a slightly longer meeting to enable as many members as possible to participate.  It was noted that holding meetings on the last Tuesday of the month meant we effectively lost August and December; it was also felt that a consistent Tuesday each month would help with members’ diary planning.  After wide ranging discussion and given the wide range of charitable and other veteran services which members felt they needed to be aware of in order to better inform veterans of their options, it was decided to trial training from now until October, inviting a subject matter expert to give high level briefing on their topic for 20 minutes, followed by 25 minutes of Q&A, leaving 45 for members’ reports and AOB.  It was also decided to ask each subject matter expert to address the same 5 key points for consistency of evidence gathering and assessment, both between subject matter experts and within on subject over time.

Decision: From January 2024 move to the third Tuesday (to avoid clashes with NCVC), move start time 5.30pm, move end time to hard stop at 7pm.  For remaining 2023 dates, keep dates as is but move start time 5.30pm, move end time to hard stop at 7pm and add training component as three-month trial.

Actions:

• To propose one subject matter expert
• To schedule experts through end of year
• To draft a question for circulation and comment

VAPC SW subject/themed groups: DT noted that these had been effective, but had fallen somewhat into abeyance and suggested rekindling them.  There was discussion about what these themes should be.  CR raised that we still also need one-to-one geographical ownership of county/district councils and unitary authorities, and that this should be seen as in additional to, not replaced by, thematic groups.  These groups should present at the monthly meetings, although substantive reports, if any, should be circulated ahead of time. Some pertinent questions: can the old themes can be repurposed/whether we need new themes/do we have the skills to populate the themes/how do these fit with our plans for 2024/how do these fit with Ministerial priorities? It was also noted that, for greatest effectiveness, VAPC should request earlier briefing by Minister (i.e. greater lead time).

Actions:

• All Members to consider whether themes are fit for purpose and circulate initial assessment/suggestions and feed their thoughts to DT; with iteration until October quarterly meeting, when themes and priorities for 2024 will be decided
• To request, in Annual Report, earlier site of Ministerial priorities to enable more effective planning for coming year
• To note in Annual Report that we have done a thorough skills audit, identified gaps and recruited accordingly, that we have revised systems and strategy, attend surges, were instrumental in producing Armed Forces Day conference

Surges

Actions:

• To request an update on future surges, dates and locations
• To feedback about recent Surge
• To attend and feedback on upcoming Dorset Surge

VAPC National Functional Groups / CIG updates

CR reported on these groups.  Most are not functioning.  It was agreed that this need to be re-established, but it was felt the best SW could do at the current juncture (ie until there is clarity on wider VAPC landscape; until new Chairs are in post for longer; until new recruitment drive is completed) was to lead by example.  [Afternote: VAPC Chairs will review improvement to the CIG management at their meeting in September.

Transition, education and employment sub-group:

Doing good work.  Looking for best practice on how other nations are doing the job, especially the Dutch. 

Finance and Debt; Health and welfare:

Were meeting, but neither is currently meeting.

Veterans and the Law Sub-Groups:

Meeting.  Numbers low.  TT writing report to Minister for Barry Smith (Chair)

Veterans Support group:

Meeting every 6 weeks and focussing on coordination across the regions, training and IT/comms support to the VAPC.

Veterans Housing:

Need for such a group is clear, and enthusiasm exists amongst members, but not yet formally resourced or established.

AFPCBs  Update

We should know at country level when they are on and try assiduously to attend them.  TT has written to Rachel asking for the dates; TT to disseminate when received. DT hoping to attend.  Important to target both officials and staff for 360° coverage.

Action: To ascertain and disseminate AFPCB dates

VAPC SW Secretary/Management

Administrative support still needed, especially for drafting and circulation of Agendas, meeting pre-reads, meeting organisation, etc.  TT and AAN between them committed to taking responsibility for taking and disseminating Minutes, which was much appreciated. Warm thanks were again extended to GW and Eileen for their hospitality, especially the delicious fish and chips lunch. CR would draft a note for the Annual Report to Minister on administrative support, and requested members to seek external administrative support.

AOB

TT noted that he would provide information on the Whistleblowers bill.