Guidance

VAPC south west England: meeting minutes 16 Oct 2024

Updated 4 December 2024

Meeting time

10am to 3pm

Meeting location

Mount Site, Taunton, Somerset

Attendance

• Chris Rose (CR) Vice-Chair – Chair 
• Duncan Tilley (DT) – Note taker
• Garry Pither (GP)
• Natasha MASON (NM)
• Guy Williams (GW)
• Leigh Bowen (LB)
• Ash Jones (AJ)

Apologies

Apologies for absence were received from 8 members:

• Jeff Spencer - Chair (JS) 
• Anica Alvarez Nishio (AAN)
• David Wood (DW)
• Hamilton Elliott (HE)
• Kieran Bird (KB)
• Tony Thompson (TT)
• Andrew Ottaway (AO)
• Iain Henderson (IH)
• Rachael Brannagan (RB) 
• Franklin Owusu-Antwi (FOA)
• Garry Pither (GP)
• Ash Jones (AJ)
• Philip Orr (PO)
• Barry Firth (BF)
• Michael Bryan (MB) had recently returned to Oxford, UK from academic secondment in the USA and had an updated email address (available on request).

Welcome (CR)

Welcomed all attendees and hoped all had received a copy of the agenda.

Chatham House rules

Reiterated, with a request that the intended confidentiality of anything discussed as being ‘off the record’ or of an intrinsically sensitive/personal nature be respected as such, and if mentioned outside the VAPC perimeter should not be attributed to VAPC or an individual attendee of this meeting.

Conflicts of interest

While the VAPC-SW Committee recognises the importance of avoiding conflicts of interest, it also recognises benefits drawn from the lived experience of its members. We, therefore, operate a policy of naming and noting any activities or experiences which could be considered conflicts, while concurrently actively drawing upon the widest experiences of its members to inform its work. At all times we endeavour to clarify explicitly when members are acting on behalf of the committee and when they are acting as private individuals.

No conflicts of interest declared.

Review and acceptance of minutes of last quarterly meeting held on 29 May 2024

Actions outstanding not covered elsewhere were noted and remarked upon by CR, but otherwise set aside in light of the relatively low attendance and absence of the Chair.

Chair’s update

CR provided an update on UK strategic issues discussed at the previous week’s meeting of the Regional Chairs group in London. JS attended, representing the SW, and CR as the National Vice Chair.  Russ Eagan from the UK Digital Team had given a presentation on the new AFCS digital forms and offers an update for all VAPC members at 14.00 on 20 November; members were encouraged to attend this online presentation.

Action:

All VAPC SW members.  

Background work had taken place on a generic survey to be handed to veterans for them to complete and return; after discussion with experts from FiMT, it was decided not to proceed with this until further research had been conducted. Some concern was expressed regarding the importance of understanding where, when and under what circumstances service personnel were transitioning, as this was seen necessary for the survey to get ‘traction’.  The 2024 Draft VAPC Regional Group TORs had been distributed to Chairs; CR agreed to share the draft outside of the meeting. PMN: These were shared by CR by email.

Regarding the change of national government and opportunities to meet the new Veteran’s Minister, Al Carns MP, conversations were beginning, but the UK Chairs were still awaiting an invitation to meet the Minister and hear his views/direction.  CR briefed that UK Chairs felt they had a good relationship with Hd AF and VS, Brig Pat Wright who had been appointed to the role earlier in 2024, vice Brig Caroline Hull. The UK Committee of VAPC Chairs’ Chair of Chairs is meeting with Hd AF and VS regularly. It was understood by the UK Chairs that OVA will move under MOD as part of the Movement Across Government (MAG) work now being undertaking across Whitehall. Members were advised that the OVA now numbers ~200 policy creation staff, up from 30-40 in 2022. The disparity between this growth and the 80-odd vacancies in capacity to delivering on those policies from Norcross (Veterans UK/AF and VS) was noted with concern.

CR advised that some of the staff in the AFC Team in MOD are changing and VAPC will need to find, and are seeking, engagement at the appropriate level within MOD.

The VAPC Act was passed by Parliament last year and secondary Legislation was to start in Nov 2023 with VAPC getting together with MOD staff in a joint WG. This took 3 months to get going by which time VAPC had prepared a draft paper which was provided prior to the change of national government. This work needs to be considered alongside the 170 recommendations emanating from the overarching Veteran Strategy review and the AFCS and VAPC QQRs which the new government is still pondering. The Minister’s intent to develop a one stop shop for veterans to access support would also include a ‘review of reviews’ with an expectation of a way ahead being developed by the end of 2024/early 2025. NB, it is assessed that there is little chance of extra funding; indeed cuts to resources might mean losses of current capacity across the board. VAPC are included in this review, though we are exceptionally ‘cheap’ and considered good VFM. 

Afternote: the Autumn Budget had announced a £2.9bn increase for Defence; it is not known if any of this would be provided for Veteran support. 

In the meantime the 2021 VAPC TORs have been extended to cover the current lack of strategic clarity and updated to some degree whilst we await direction from Minister on the future role (requirement) for VAPC. Until that is forthcoming we must carry on as we are awaiting the secondary legislation and review of our 10 years out-of-date Handbook. As the two go hand in hand, CR’s Handbook rewrite is also in limbo for now.  It is acknowledged the current Handbook does not cover a range of recent structural changes, including a more collegiate approach between VAPC regions and the role of the UK Chair of VAPC Chairs. It has out-of-date guidance for Members on what they should and should not do.

CR discussed the recruitment of Chairs, noting that the current Chair of VAPC EM would carry on until a successor is found. Recruitment is on hold for the England Veterans’ Commissioner and VAPC NI and EM Chairs, pending the Minister’s position being revealed.  Wales and Scotland Commissioners are to remain in post until further notice. With respect to recruiting for SW Members, it is assumed the next recruitment campaign will likely be in 2025 and members were asked to begin scouting for possible future members and co-optees. There will be more discussion on this at the next SW VAPC Meeting.

Actions:

CR to circulate to SW Members: the minutes of the most recent UK CVC Meeting when available; Updated 2024 TORs (done); Requirement/Target dates for Report to Minister (by the end of 2024) – see below for proposed dates:

• 15 Jan: initial SW VAPC members inputs to JS/CR/AAN at SW VAPC Quarterly
• 31 Jan: final inputs from SW VAPC members
• 1-12 Feb: SW VAPC report drafting
• 13-17 Feb: SW VAPC report reviewed by members and comments provided
• 19 Feb: final SW VAPC report locked
• 20 Feb: VAPC regional reports to Annual Report (AR) drafting team (DT) 
• 28 Feb: first draft submitted by DT for chairs
• 6 Mar: comments from chairs to DT
• 11 Mar: revised version of AR to chairs from DT
• 18 Mar: final chairs comments to DT
• 25 Mar: AR locked and ready to send.

(CR) Annual Report (AR) to Minister in Spring 2025

CR drew attention to the first actions, noting that the first iteration of this new annual cycle needs to culminate in a SW VAPC Annual Report being provided to National Chairs early in 2025 so they must be submitted for agreement and agreed NLT the January 2025 quarterly meeting. To achieve this the AR will be a standing agenda item on the next two monthly virtual meetings.

AFCS

CR highlighted the bi-monthly AF and VS Performance meetings which any VAPC Member can attend.  CR can provide details to anyone who is interested. The main brief starts at 2pm but there is a 1.30pm pre-meet for VAPC attendees. LB had attended a meeting and advised that data-sharing was the focus, not queries regarding what the data highlights or conjecture about what the data means. The data may not meet VAPC interest with a typical AF veteran’s Lived Experience.

CR asked about statistics regarding Veterans as he was interested in knowing what additional statistics/data (other than those currently recorded, reported and analysed by AF and VS staff) VAPC would be interested in having access to. He wondered whether there was scope for MB to be tasked with looking at the stats in detail, now he is back in UK. A discussion took place amongst some of those present concerning the numbers of claimants under WP/AFCS who accept the first assessment figure and how many are unhappy, either initially or down the line, as well as how many refuse the first offer and proceed to a formal challenge of their assessment. Dissatisfaction may be linked in certain cases with unrealistic expectations reflected on social media.

CR advised that AFCS issues will, for now, be informally addressed at the UK CVC through separate focussed meetings. SW should continue to gather data locally where we can (both ‘good’ and ‘bad’ news).

GP shared that a new Taunton Armed Forces Veterans Breakfast Club had been established, led by Eddy Cullen and meeting in the Taunton Golf Club. VAPC members local to Taunton were encouraged to attend.

The MOD Digitisation team’s Statement of Requirement for a proper digital solution for the VAPC (email accounts, secure data storage, etc) shows that progress is being made in this area at last. 

Afternote: Dates of Birth of VAPC members will be needed for these MOD email addresses to be obtained.

GP noted the ‘incredible churn at the top’ of AF and VS  - discussion of who ‘owns’ Norcross and can get a grip on the issues there to move them forward.  Head AF and VS had settled in and is providing 1* oversight and direction and it was noted that the Deputy Head had been in post for many years and provides some continuity.

VAPC’s role as critical friend to AF and VS/Veterans UK was again discussed, noting VAPCs can provide feedback to AF and VS on the realities faced by veterans as we encounter them to help the understaffed civil servants to focus manpower to best effect and also as a training aid for staff including the MOs and others in the assessment chain.

GW noted the empirical evidence he was aware of that indicated a high number of possible claimants do not even start with the AFCS or War Pension process as they feel it will inevitably fail them.

NM noted that VWS were going out (within their limited available T and S) around Devon and Cornwall but have now been told that the low numbers of pre-booked attendees/clients at veteran drop-in centres was evidence to suggest site visits were not an efficient use of VWS resources.  The Drop-In centre model was specifically intended to negate the advance booking requirement, so there were bound to be very low pre-booking numbers, thus the policy outlined above risked being a self-fulfilling prescription of failure.

Housing

OP FORTITUDE – The meeting was advised that only single AF Veterans were able to be assisted; those with dependent family members (spouse/children under direct care) could not be assisted as it lay beyond OP FORTITUDE’s formal remit due to serious Safeguarding concerns, which seemed inappropriate and would need addressing at UK level.  

Actions:

JS/CR.

Local Authorities

(LB) Hugh James hearing brief

LB first briefed the meeting on the HJ Matrix (AF Hearing Loss claims parameters agreed between HJ and MOD legal teams).

LB then briefed the meeting on a recent Conference, attended by JS and LB where RN Sea King and other Rotary Wing Craft Efflux claims were presented.

Detailed notes on these briefings to be circulated separately due to the sensitive nature of the discussions.

(All)

CR briefed that VAPC have been invited to consider replicating the MOD’s previous Veterans’ Lived Experience events, which were both held in London.  Suggestions were that SW VAPC could run something along the lines of the 2021 Veteran’s Forum held to coincide with Cornwall hosting AFD and convened by SW VAPC at RAF ST MAWGAN. Could we host another similar f2f conference in 2025? Would a virtual Lived Experience event be better?  Should regions go it alone or get together to stage national Lived Experience event(s) for the UK or the Nations (England/Scotland/Wales/NI)

NM noted that attempts to gather Veterans’ Lived Experience through staged events tend to attract organisations not individuals and tend to elicit overwhelmingly only the negative experiences.  Would it be better to facilitate an on-line/paper national survey of Veterans’ Lived Experiences? Overall there was little appetite for running a f2f conference for the SW only and a limited desire to run a virtual conference; neither option was likely to gather sufficient and balanced views. There was general support for continuing to engage with veterans and veteran-facing organisations, charities, LA etc. These were able to sift out trends and concerns. A ‘Meta-Survey’ of previous surveys was mooted.

VAPC needs to address the 2 Ministerial Questions set by the previous MinAF and the best way to do so was not yet agreed.  Members were asked to set their minds to how we might go about this, and be ready to feed back at the next virtual meeting or direct to the Chair/Vice Chair in the interim.  

Actions:

All.

Prioritisation of pre-report activities (CR/All) 

CR advised that this topic and planned inputs from all VAPC SW members into the Annual Report had already been covered.

Any other business

CR thanked GW and through him the catering and admin staff for use of the facilities and arranging/laying out lunch.

GW alerted the meeting to the next Somerset AF Covenant Meeting next Wednesday at Canalside, Bridgewater.

Big Breakfast 2 being arranged at RNAS CULDROSE Sat 23 Nov.  All VAPC Members who can spare the time are requested to support IH in his efforts to support veterans in Cornwall by attending this event.

Dates of next meetings

2024 monthly meetings

• Tue 19 November, 5.30pm to 7pm via Zoom
• Tue 17 December, 5.30pm to 7pm via Zoom

2025 quarterly meetings

All meetings will be held in Taunton all day, with pre-meets on Tue 14 January in the afternoon.

• Wed 15 January - TBC
• Wed 16 April
• Wed 16 July
• Wed 15 October

Quarterly in-person meetings

JS has previously asked that all Members prioritise attending SW VAPC quarterly meetings, in-person if at all possible.

Members’ suggestions are sought for guest speaker(s) at monthly and quarterly meetings