Guidance

VAPC south west England: meeting minutes 29 January 2025

Updated 25 February 2025

Meeting time

10am to 3pm

Meeting location

Mount Street, Taunton, Somerset

Attendance

• Jeff Spencer - Chair (JS) 
• Chris Rose (CR) Vice-Chair – Chair 
• Anica Alvarez Nishio (AAN) - Note taker
• Leigh Bowen (LB)
• Rachael Brannagan (RB) 
• Hamilton Elliott (HE)
• Ash Jones (AJ)
• Garry Pither (GP)
• Tony Thompson (TT)
• Duncan Tilley (DT) 
• Guy Williams (GW)

Apologies

Apologies for absence were received from 7 members:

• David Wood (DW)
• Kieran Bird (KB)
• Iain Henderson (IH)
• Philip Orr (PO)
• Barry Firth (BF)
• Michael Bryan (MB) 
• Natasha MASON (NM)

Welcome

JS welcomed the group, gave apologies from committee members and Maria Riberio, Invictus and SW VPPP, and reminded group of Chatham House rules and Conflict of Interest declarations. 

DT declared he has accepted public appointment with the Health and Care Professions Council Tribunal Service. Minutes were reviewed and unanimously accepted.

Chair’s update

JS reported that, while the VAPC position still in flux, there is much positive preparatory VAPC work being done, outlining positive aspects of the new ministerial leadership. 

CR reported that over the summer and autumn, a working group developed a draft of proposed secondary legislation. After UK CVC review this has been sent to MOD for comment. As yet there has not been a reply.

The joint MOD-VAPC Review Working Group, established by the previous Minister, meets every two months, but progress remains slow. There has also been establishment of a task force directed by the Minister to look at the services that support veterans. This team is expected to report in February/March. By April/May we hope there will be an indication of VAPC’s new/revised role. VAPC will have submitted the annual report, and a face-to-face meeting with Minister should have been scheduled. It is hoped that the timing of these events will align. 

CR has suggested that more targeted, regular reporting, e.g. monthly, would be of greater value to the MOD and more favourably received by Minister and senior civil service contacts. JS fully supported this more routine engagement and suggested a senior civil servant be designated to receive, audit and action formal VAPC proposals, and that the Minister should only be engaged by exception, or on his initiative; short discussion ensued about the difference between monthly reporting and communications direct to Minister.

AFCS

Efforts are ongoing - LB reported positivity in relation to the AFCS complaints team procedure. Time scales were adhered to by this team in LB’s experience and their experience with the complaints team was better. However, there is still a need to chase responses with casework teams and improve the language in letters to veterans. In one case, given as an example, a threat to escalate matters brought that particular claim to a conclusion, but the decision could have been made months earlier.  In short, the process still very slow, taking staffing issues into account. 

It was noted that there is a great deal of anecdotal evidence that many people don’t include in complaints because, even when they are upheld, often it does not result in anything more than an apology. What is needed is a change in process, improved training etc. Digitisation, while still experiencing ‘teething’ difficulties, has meant that for many (but not all) it is ‘easier’ to make claim. As a result, the number of claims has gone up. However, under-staffing and a hold on recruitment persist, arguably increasing the backlog, despite some efficiency measures underway in AF&VS.  Additionally, there is anecdotal evidence that some applicants find the process (digital or otherwise) so difficult that they do not fully complete claims. 

JS pointed out that 8,000 claims were reassessed and corrected at tribunal between 2016 and 2023, and wondered how many more individuals who might be eligible did not make claims at all. When CR raised this at the 2023 CACC meeting, he was told applicants did not complete claims because ‘they realised they did not have a valid claim’. As a result CR queried how to get quantified evidence that people have refrained from making claims at all due to difficulty of claims process.

CR and AAN to get advice from professional statisticians on how to evidence ‘non reporting’.

JS to develop the metrics he would like to see. GP raised that the MOD will be faced with a whole range of claims going forward and asked how to help make the system better. JS asserted that VAPC intent aims to help improve systems, and that increased and improved customer feedback and VAPC and veteran engagement would be advantageous. JS, AAN and CR to have a discussion and get outside advice about data, metrics, etc. in advance of data meeting (CR and AAN to attend).

Health

JS: DW reported that Veterans Covenant Healthcare Alliance (VCHA) is working hard to bring health organisations together to identify people as veterans as they walk through the door, rather than needing to ask - noted that this is a huge challenge. VCHA is now training NHS staff on how to interact with veterans once they are identified. CR noted this is something we could put in the annual report. DT noted that provision is inconsistent, and gave firsthand, lived experience of shortcomings. 

JS suggested that there should be a set standard for organisations to meet Veterans Aware (VA) status with VA leads, etc. RB said that the Reserve Forces and Cadets Association (RFCA) do a lot of work with NHS trusts, ICBs, etc. Many of these do go ‘above and beyond’ but this relies on who is leading. JS restated his aspiration that serving members of the armed forces and veterans might be identified to service providers via an existing national identifier (e.g. NHS or NI number). CR suggested VAPC could capture best practice from (e.g.) Somerset NHS (as noted by RB), link that to DT’s comments regarding Derriford Hospital. CR to discuss with MB about establishing small task force to move this forward.

Transition

While some transition issues show progress, others remain highly challenging. AJ raised dentistry, as many are finding it almost impossible to access (having had it while serving) and therefore having to turn to private sector. He noted that some are able to access dentistry through charitable provision (eg RNRMA, which should also be mentioned in the ATR to Minister), but this is inconsistent and not sustainable. RB to raise with Covenant Team that charitable sector is paying for dentistry. GW suggested national dentistry chain might be willing to provide a discount card, perhaps through the Defence Discount card or Veteran’s ID card. JS requested that RB speak with the Cornwall Council Covenant Officer, who has pursued this problem with the MoD Covenant Team. 

GW reported that Robin Herzberg (Chair of VAPC Transition and Employment CIG) has done a report on transition looking at what Germany, Holland and the USA do, which is vastly different to what is done in the UK: GW to circulate report. RB reported that the transition landscape is currently very ‘messy’, with numerous organisations working on similar actions, leading to confusion and overlap; notably OVA and CTP have different and perhaps non-complementary approaches.

Housing

The government’s announcement that individuals no longer need to prove an established connection to locality to be eligible for housing is very welcome. GP pointed out that this may cause notably increased demand locally against a backdrop of a national housing shortage, and offered to put together some thoughts. VAPC SW to assess how this new governmental decision is being interpreted and actioned by Councils. 

HE noted that in Gloucestershire, veterans (and others) have been released from prison with minimal resources, no accommodation and no support, and yet have been classed by the council as ‘intentionally’ homeless. There was some discussion as to whether ‘intentional’ may be a default category if an individual has not (yet) actively sought housing support. JS asked group to contact their local councils to ascertain whether it is standard practice to label prison leavers as ‘intentionally’ homeless. HE to pursue meetings with councils when we have feedback.

CJS: TT reported on his extensive advocacy within HMP Leyhill, where he is now a trusted advisor.

AAN reported that she had attended the Veterans and the Law Common Interest Group (CIG) group, where a discussion was had about reaching out to the Independent Monitoring Boards Secretariat about the possibility of joint working. This would be trialled in those establishments where VAPC already has a presence.

Acts of Parliament

JS raised a query about the range of things we are being asked to do, and whether we have the capacity to address everything. He flagged the need to prioritise between looking across the SW, and bringing the SW view to a CIG. 

DT raised the issue of mapping members’ skills to specific problems. 

JS has asked people to think about specific issues they might like to address or roles they would like to take on, or something they feel would add value but for which they do not have the appropriate skill or time. If the latter, will try to find someone to do it.  Members have been asked to feed back ideas after this meeting by email, copying the group so that others may join forces on particular projects where they feel they could add value. CR noted it would also be very helpful to have ideas to propose to Minister about next year’s cross-committee tasking to VAPC for 2025/2026.

Annual report

Everyone who has reported on a specialist area to put together 2 to 3 sentences and send to AAN by the close of play Friday 31 January. AAN will collate these, together with JS’s initial thoughts, and write and circulate draft SW annual report by 2 February 2025 for comment. JS continues to review an early draft from AAN, and reported additional support on AFCS from LB and DT which will be sent to SW VAPC as draft.

Defence Gateway

We now have Defence Gateway accounts which give us all an MOD email address. While there are some limitations to the system, it is a welcome step to have access to these.  All members should activate them and use them for official email. We can do an assessment of limitations (e.g. little storage, cannot send large files, no possibility of integrating with other email addresses on standard platforms, etc.) while also utilising the service. 

A request has gone out for generic regional email addresses, so that there is a main ‘postbox’ for each regional committee. DT suggested people use Defence Gateway as main email address, copying in private emails for those who wish emails to go to both places.

AAN raised data protection and data hygiene concerns. JS, CR and DT acknowledged the concerns but felt the practicalities outweighed these.

Members to tell JS/CR which email they would like to use as their primary email. AAN encouraged the use of Defence Gateway as sole address. 

Website

AAN and Charlie Radclyffe built one ages ago - will circulate and trial it. RB to form media working group to develop communications strategy, look at brand awareness, etc, of which the website will be the first step. RB and AAN to discuss.

Specialist areas updates

TT has noted need for assistance in filling forms, doing AFCS casework, etc, as there is decreasing provision for this. JS to lead on determining third sector points of contact for people having trouble filling in forms. JS to speak with RBL, and VWS; AJ to speak with SSAFA.

Any other business

RB: RFCA relationship management had its 10-year review, with a number of outcomes:

• implementation plan in progress, moving from quantitative to qualitative working
• shift in change management plan to ‘managed, engaged, informed’ - with this comes a focus on leveraging and supporting employers
• defence will look at industry sectors with which they want RFCA to engage
• Wales RFCA is increasing its association membership following a strategy review in 2024 - with this will come more information, invitations and collaborative working

TT: Southwest Armed Forces Convenant Partnership board (SWAFCPB) looking into opportunities for exploiting its strengths and sharing best practice. We asked how SW VAPC can support the SWAFCPB to plan and deliver.

DT: Unless ALBs and similar organisations are all ranks, they will not get endorsement or financial support from MOD.

CR briefed the Devon Lord Lieutenant’s Armed Forces Group on the VAPC and attended their quarterly meeting, noting that they are investigating how the Lieutenancy might best support the county’s veteran charities. CR provided information on the regional QWEG and RB noted that Dorset is already running a similar programme. We have also had engagement with Scotty’s Little Soldiers, VWS South (who have provided an excellent update) and the lead for the establishment of a second Veteran’s ‘Hub’ in Plymouth, where we have provided advice on how to set up a charity and avoid competition with the existing Hub.

Dates of next meetings

2025 monthly meetings

• 25 February - 5.30pm to 6.30pm
• 25 March - 5.30pm to 6.30pm

2025 quarterly meetings

Please hold:

• 16 April 2025
• 30 April 2025