Guidance

VAPC Yorkshire and Humber: meeting minutes 16 October 2023

Updated 5 November 2024

Attendees

• Alex Baxter (Chair)
• Mr Chris Nolan (Vice Chair)
• Dr Iain Burnside
• Mr John Topping (Co-opted)
• Maj Adrian Hunt
• Mrs Helen Singleton (Zoom)
• Col (Retd) Chris Mason (Secretary)(Co-opted)

Apologies

• Maj Huw Bell
• Mr Tim Cole
• Ms Elspeth Duemmer-Wrigley
• Mr Alex Bentley
• Mr Norman Turnbull (Co-opted)
• Maj Pete Mason
• Mr Rick Short
• Mrs Yvonne MacDonald

Absent

• Flt Lt Steve Griffiths Sqn Ldr (Retd)
• Mike Chambers MBE (Co-opted)
• Mr Craig Gadd (Co-opted)
• Mr Andrew Palmer (Co-opted)
• Mr Nick Mitchell (Co-opted)
• Mrs Christine Landess (Co-opted)

Observer or guest

• Katy Elliott (AFMET NE Lincs)

2. General items:

a. Introductions and apologies:

The Chair, Alex Baxter welcomed members to the meeting and noted apologies as above.

In a general introduction he summarised recent events, with a focus on the passage into law of the Veterans Advisory and Pensions Committees Act 2023. He stated that the future looks healthy for the VAPCs, in contrast to its prospects following the release of the VAPC Quinquennial Review. We are now awaiting the Statutory Instruments from the Act that will determine VAPC function and utility.

b. Minutes of the Last Meeting/ Actions with VAPC:

There was a correction to the minutes of the last meeting on 26 June 2023 raised by the Chair, where one of his comments was misrepresented.

Page 3, item 3b (In reference to Local Authority AF Covenant engagement):

Some areas seem to have taken a backward step, NE Lincs, Rotherham, and the newly formed North Yorkshire amalgamation of smaller district councils.

The Chair states that NE Lincs should not have been included in this sentence, as they remain an exemplar of good practice.

With this correction accepted, the minutes were approved.

Actions were as follows:

1. 3b(i) John Topping volunteered to recirculate our recent letter and question to Local Authorities AF Covenant officers to seek any further responses to inform our report. [Completed 3 July 2023]

2. 3c(i) Chris Nolan (Vice-chair) will put together the structural draft of our report and circulate it to members soon. [Completed 4 July 2023]

3. 3c(ii) A one-item zoom meeting of the Yorkshire and Humber VAPC will take place on either 7 or 14 August to discuss the report at that stage. Chair and Vice-chair will decide on date and time and communicate these to members. [Timings of report submission negated this intention]

4. 5a(ii) Chris Mason (Sec) will write to members to seek views on what should be the initial priorities of the Yorkshire and Humber H&WSG and then to convene a zoom meeting to take forward. [CN followed-up on Health Programme update from EM VAPC (Hearing loss paper and their discussion regarding mesothelioma in Annual Report – discussions with Barry Smith. To be discussed at October meeting]

5. b. The influence of Veteran health issues in the CJS to be further discussed at the Yorkshire and Humber H&WSG. [Lead has been taken by JT, to be discussed at October meeting]

A discussion followed with reference to a question from the Secretary (Chris Mason) as to the timing of publication of the VAPC minutes to the gov.uk website. He asked if it would be better to delay publication until they had been approved at the subsequent meeting. The Committee consensus was that, although this allows more time for Committee members to peruse the minutes, it would create a significant delay in bringing the minutes to a wider audience, which was confirmed as the priority. It was decided that we would keep to past practice and publish once checked by Chair and Vice-Chair and having been distributed to Committee members.

The Chair also reported the very recent DBS directive on Travel and Subsistence (T&S) payments. This states that T&S will only be available where attendance at a meeting in person is critical to VAPC activity. Whilst this policy is extant, he will be able to advise and support members in deciding if an activity is critical to Y&H VAPC business.

3. Feedback and updates

a. Discussion once more centred on the demise of the UK VAPC Health and Wellbeing sub-group, and was led by Iain Burnside. He stated that in its absence, we are missing opportunities to develop previous work and new areas to the benefit of our Veteran community. He pointed out that many of the individuals in the sub-group are now “gone and lost” to the VAPCs. The Chair reported a desire from several members to resurrect the sub-group, under any title, but that we may need to await the issuing of Statutory Instruments to drive this. It was agreed that any newly re-formed sub-group would need adequate support, particularly in the form of administration and secretarial support if it is to be effective.

b. Discussion then covered what our future roles and responsibilities will be, and how these are going to be realistically possible for a volunteer organisation. John Topping stated that it is possible for us to exert influence as a “critical friend” by joining other organisations, e.g., Health Trusts, but we cannot do this in any comprehensive fashion over our large area of responsibility (AoR).

c. The Chair then consulted the Committee as to how it would like him to approach his forthcoming one-to-one consultation with Minister DPV&F. It was agreed that the substance of the meeting must be based on the Y&H VAPC Annual Report that is already in the Minister’s hands. We agreed that the primary message to the Minister from our Chair should be a desire for Y&H VAPC to actively exert INFLUENCE and increase AWARENESS across our AoR as a CRITICAL FRIEND to all players, with the intent of improving the lot of our veterans and veteran’s families. This will be backed up with specific evidence from our recent Annual report. We would ask that the re-shaping of the VAPCs via the pending Statutory Instruments to the Act facilitate this. The Chair and Vice-Chair will discuss this approach prior to the meeting. [ACTION]

4. Y&H Health sub-group

a. Health Programme update:

Chris Nolan (Vice-Chair) expressed some lack of understanding regarding a couple of issues in the UK VAPC combined annual report arising from inputs from other regions.

(i) The first related to the apparent desire to specifically label Service-related Noise Induced Hearing Loss (NIHL), as Veterans Noise Induced Hearing Loss. He could not see an advantage to this and nor could the meeting.

(ii) The second was in apparently seeking to alter the level of Service-related asbestos compensation, when this was set nationally by Government for all proven cases irrespective of employment. It was raised that we did not think that there is Veteran representation on the compensation committee. Also suggested was that it would be helpful to have veteran representation on all such relevant committees which deal with health issues that affect veterans as a result of their service.

The Vice-Chair also drew the Committee’s attention to the organisation ‘Independent Age,’ who provide several useful leaflets on health-related and benefit matters. Details can be found at: independentage.org/publications.

5. OVA Newcastle September 23 meeting Feedback:

Chris Nolan (Vice-Chair) reported back from the meeting which he and the Chair visited in September. The Veterans Strategy Action Plan had been discussed, and Adrian Hunt stated that this had not been well publicised or circulated during its launch in January 2022. Other matters discussed were the ongoing delays to the Veteran ID card roll out, and the right to remain in the UK for Commonwealth service people. Chris reported that the greatest benefit in attending the meeting had been the discussions in the margins and networking opportunities.

6. Veterans and the Criminal Justice System (CJS):

John Topping summarised his recent work in this area following his Freedom of Information (FOI) requests to various Constabularies detailed in previous minutes. He has been attempting to raise awareness of apparent problems in the CJS, and that in his opinion, Constabularies are in many cases relying on Operation NOVA as their solution to situations where vulnerable veterans find themselves facing arrest. He is keen to point out that Op NOVA only comes into action when individuals are in the CJS system and have been charged. He emphasised how the Police Service can proactively address the issue of vulnerable veterans before charging, and he is a strong advocate of the processes in place in Surrey to address this. He has been in active communication with his MP and the North Yorkshire Police and Crime Commissioner.

Ian Burnside raised the issue of the police service apparently wishing to delegate responsibility for possible mental health issues to the NHS and mental health teams. He states that the massive overstretch in mental health service provision in the NHS at present makes this an unworkable strategy. He also stated that the recent successes he and John Topping had achieved in supporting veterans in the CJS had only come to light by chance, because they both had prior knowledge of the individuals concerned. This raises the question of how to help those that are in trouble and not known to us.

7. ICB/Council updates from members:

a. Leeds: Chris Mason (Secretary) reported that he had attended a Veterans’ Voice event in Leeds last month. The issues of most concern from the veterans present related to the delay in receipt of ID cards, and their desire for a point of contact to help them understand and make use of the multitude of AF charities. The meeting was attended by three local councillors, and the Shadow Min DPV&F Rachel Hopkins MP. Leeds City Council’s next AF Covenant meeting is the day after this meeting, and Chris Mason will be attending.

b. Rotherham/ Doncaster: Adrian Hunt reported on the good work seen from Rotherham who have recently run their annual Veterans Day, bringing together interested Local Authority and charities with the Lord Lieutenant leading on the day. Adrian has attended a Veterans’ Voice meeting in Rotherham and has another one in Doncaster this weekend. He reports that the Doncaster Veterans’ Co-ordinator was very keen to take on a role across the whole of South Yorkshire. Unfortunately, because of difficulties in terms of inter-council chains of accountability, this has not come to fruition.

c. NE Lincs: Alex Baxter (Chair) explained the system in the council where a member of the Council Cabinet has responsibility for veterans’ affairs, noting that this is why the system is working so well, and that it fosters very helpful links with the Armed Forces Major Events Team and HQ in Cleethorpes of which Alex is the Director.

d. Wakefield: John Topping has recently given a briefing to the Wakefield Covenant team on the CJS-related matters referred to in item 6 above.

8. Nuclear Veterans/ Op GRAPPLE:

Chris Nolan (Vice-Chair) gave a briefing on the current situation relating to the possible health-related effects of participation in Op GRAPPLE. He stated that, although most original participants are now in their mid 80s, there is increasing evidence that some possibly related health effects are manifesting in their children and families. The intent of the briefing was to raise our awareness of the situation, and any potential ongoing consequences.

9. OVA Conference in York, November 2023

Chris Nolan (Vice-Chair) reported that, although he was initially declined an invite, a place has now been found for him at this conference, and that he will attend and report back subsequently. [ACTION]

10. Any other business:

None.

11. Next meeting:

The Chair suggested a meeting towards the end of January 2024, adding that the location is most likely reverting to York, assuming that the DBS embargo on face-to-face meetings is lifted.

Annex

• The relevant Freedom of Information references are: 2019/02887 and 2023/03691.