Guidance

VAPC Yorkshire and Humber: meeting minutes 22 July 2024

Updated 5 November 2024

Attendees

• Alex Baxter (Chair)
• Chris Nolan (Vice Chair)
• Iain Burnside
• Chris Mason (Secretary)
• John Topping (Co-opted)
• Alex Bentley
• Helen Singleton
• Rick Short

Apologies

• Adrian Hunt
• Norman Turnbull (Co-opted)
• Pete Mason
• Ron Laden
• Elspeth Duemmer-Wrigley
• Derek Cross

Absent

• Tim Cole
• Steve Griffiths
• Mike Chambers (Co-opted)
• Craig Gadd (Co-opted)
• Andrew Palmer (Co-opted)
• Christine Landess (Co-opted)
• Huw Bell
• Nick Mitchell (Co-opted)

Observer or guest

Katy Elliott

2. General items

a. Introductions, welcomes and apologies:

The Chair, Alex Baxter welcomed members to the meeting and apologies were noted as above.

b. Minutes of the last meeting/actions with VAPC:

The minutes from the last meeting (13 May 2024) were accepted unanimously by those present and agreed for publication.

Actions from the minutes were as follows:

1. (Previous minutes). John Topping to supply Chair with NYCC LA contact details for letter. [JT/Chair - John Topping reported an apparent lack of engagement from Veterans Champion. Chair will write to Chair of NYCC to identify poc]

2. (Previous minutes). Chair to revise ‘SW Onboarding’ induction document as rolling resource. [Chair will ask if Elspeth Wrigley would be available to adapt the document for Y&H VAPC]

3. (3a). Circulate letter from Min DP&F dated 10 May 2024. [Sec - Included with minutes as is letter from VAPC Sponsor team]

4. (3a). Sec to store Chair’s presentation – members may wish to use. [Completed]

5. (4). Sec to forward volunteers’ details to CIG leads. [Sec - completed 1 July 2024]

6. (6a). The Chair to open initial engagement with the Police and Crimes Commissioner for Humberside and North Lincolnshire and report back. [Chair has opened an initial dialogue.

7. (7b). The Chair to discuss the JT discussed case further with Rob Rowntree at AFVS. [Chair - no response from Rob Rowntree as yet]

8. (9). Sec to circulate GDPR forms for all to complete. [Sec - completed - only 6 returns to date. Further action: Chair/ Vice-chair to use as an opportunity to clarify non-responders intentions regarding ongoing Y&H VAPC involvement]

3. Feedback and updates

a. Chair’s feedback from UK Chairs’ VAPC Committee:

The Chair provided an overview update the Secondary Legislation Review Working Group. There are still tensions within UK CVC with respect to VAPC activity – individual advocacy versus collective higher-level interactions on behalf of the veterans’ community. A UK CVC strategy meeting is planned for October.

Concern was expressed generally regarding the plan to delay delivery of our Annual Report (AR), with members agreeing that we were becoming observers rather than actors in the veteran space. There was a general feeling that issues important to veterans and raised by Y&H VAPC were being “kicked into the long grass”. Chris Nolan raised the possibility of us producing the minutes of this current meeting in a way that would encapsulate issues that would have formed the AR. This was unanimously agreed by those present.

Discussion also included news that UK CVC was planning a more “professionalised” questionnaire to be used by area VAPCs to ascertain veterans’ views on the lived experience of specific Government actions (usually branded under “Operation ……”) /Armed Forces Covenant. Some reservations were raised as to how this would be received if it were to be too complex and lengthy, based on recent Y&H experience with our trial of a simple questionnaire locally.

Attendance at the next AFVS Performance Meeting was discussed, including plans to have a pre-meeting. The Chair is unable to attend, and Helen Singleton volunteered to attend on his behalf (Chair will forward details of the meeting).

4. Outstanding issues from last year’s AR: Development of an action plan

(i) General concern/culture

VAPC members have the Armed Forces Covenant as a key touchstone to their responsibilities and engagement. Its themes form the focus for our area AR and are an on the ground, localised view as to its deployment and integration and value across the Veterans & Families communities.

At present the most significant barrier to Y&H VAPC achieving positive outcomes appears to be our interactions and communication with MOD/ AFVS (VETS UK). We understand that there has been a split in provision of central support, with AF Covenant Team providing Policy Support and AFVS providing continuing Administrative Support. We are awaiting responses to a number of contacts, some of which date back many months and relate to significant concerns regarding the health of veterans (and serving personnel). Enquiries have related both to individual veterans and health issues affecting large groups. Our Vice-chair has pointed out that he has had much more success in communicating with MOD as a member of the public using FoI legislation, than in using VAPC related channels. We have not been able to find a published version of the quinquennial review on the Government website.

(ii) Key issues:

a. Sea King Helicopter Asbestos risk VETS(UK)/AFVS awareness

It was raised in the Y&H Annual Report 2022-23 that uniformed veterans were being disadvantaged as against MOD/Private contractor civilian staff (Item 7 from Joint Chairs’ meeting with Minister Murrison November 2023.).

There is an ongoing frustration within the Committee that there is no evidence of any follow-up actions to the concerns raised. A series of questions were raised with likely ability/ responsibility to answer suggested as in the table below:

Which stakeholder group should own/ manage issue? If not, why not?
Sea King Helicopter asbestos risk	Y&H VAPC	UK CVC	Hd AFVS	AFVS (VETS UK) [Admin]	AF Covenant Team [Policy]	Min V&P
Who, what, where in respect of: Statement of Assurance- Owner/ Actions/ Activity/ Resources/ Timescales					X	X
There was apparently a plan to contact the original Sea King Helicopter Y&H authors for input. Why has nothing happened in this respect?		X			X
Has dispensation been given to AFVS to not comply with the Armed Forces Covenant (Statutory Requirement)?			X	X	X	X
Why are AFVS not represented directly or cascaded information from MOD at the Parliamentary All party asbestosis committee?			X	X
Who Validated the clinical information re Asbestosis released by the Nov 23 Committee on compensation chaired by the minister   incl. members of the Independent Medical Experts Group?					X

The Chair will, by letter seek answers to our questions as directed in the table.

b. 1. Hearing Loss Compensation Scheme – Press Release

Concern was raised by Iain Burnside and other Committee members that the press had announced Government changes to the way in which the Hearing Loss Compensation Scheme was to function without any prior or explanatory communication to the VAPC. From a BBC article on this matter dated 8 Jul 24 ”The MOD arrangement follows negotiations led by Hugh James solicitors and allows the government to continue fighting cases brought by other firms, although sources close to the case believe this is unlikely to happen.”

The committee seeks clarification on these apparent changes to the Compensation Scheme and the recent press information in relation to Hugh James Solicitors.

The Chair will send a letter to the AFCT seeking a clarification of the situation in respect of the Hearing Loss Compensation Scheme.

c. Delays in Veterans compensation claims and settlements - BBC Radio4 and BBC podcast

Members noted that in a recent BBC Radio 4 programme MOD was reported to have stated:

Even when the tribunal does reach a different conclusion, it does not mean the decision by VETS(UK) was wrong.

The committee agreed that much more information is required regarding the comments put into the public domain in this unverified BBC programme and would like to know what relevant information is available in the public domain. It would appear likely that this would best be approached through the AFVS Performance Meeting and a co-ordinated response by the UK CVC.

The Chair or representative will take this question to the next AFVS Performance Meeting.

5. Break

6. Health sub-group

(i) H&W CIG:

Chris Mason (CM), Iain Burnside and Chris Nolan (CN) reported on the first two online meetings of the H&W CIG. Though attended by 10+ individuals there was little practical enthusiasm to take on leadership/ secretarial roles, which had temporarily been taken by CM & CN. It was decided to reconvene a meeting in September/October 2024 to look at the viability of the group.

(ii) Hearing Loss Compensation:

The Government engagement and announcement of a legal firm to settle hearing loss claims had come as a surprise to the VAPC both locally and nationally. Questions were raised as to the process that preceded the launch of the scheme and is to be addressed by Y&H as at 4 (ii) b. above.

(iii) BBC ‘File on 4’ Vets UK programme:

The BBC programme was discussed, in particular the comment - ‘The MOD added even though the tribunal does reach different conclusion, it does not mean the decision by VETS(UK) was wrong’. Again, to be addressed as at 4 (ii) c. above.

(iv) John Topping (JT) case update:

Little progress reported despite continued support from JT. The Chair stated that he would contact AFVS to attempt to clarify the situation.

(v) NI Legacy Act 2023:

Iain Burnside gave an update on the current status of the act and potential changes under the new government.

(vi) Mid-Yorkshire Hospital Trust:

CN has not received any response from the Trust Chair to his offer of assistance detailed in previous minutes. It was decided that CN would draft a letter to Wakefield and Kirklees ICB.

7. Local/ICB/Local Authority other stakeholders member activity (Incl. capture of best practice)

Positive activity reported from Sheffield, Wakefield and Leeds. See actions (2b 1 above) for comments regarding North Yorkshire.

8. Committee membership

Following the relatively poor response to the secretary’s request for updated GDPR forms (7 forms returned), the Chair will look to ascertain the intentions of members/ co-opted members who have not recently been active in respect of the VAPC. The committee agreed that in the absence of a response there is risk to the committee in sharing/ circulating information.

John Topping will look to apply once again to become a Y&H VAPC member. The Chair will enquire of AFVS regarding the planning for the next recruitment cycle.

9. AOB

None.

10. Next meeting

21 October 2024.