Guidance

VAPC Yorkshire and Humber: meeting minutes 26 June 2023

Updated 5 November 2024

Attendees

• Alex Baxter (Chair)
• Mr Chris Nolan (Vice Chair)
• Dr Iain Burnside
• Mr Alex Bentley
• Mr Rick Short
• Mr John Topping (Co-opted)
• Maj Adrian Hunt
• Maj Pete Mason
• Mr Norman Turnbull (Co-opted)
• Col (Retd) Chris Mason (Secretary)(Co-opted)

Apologies

• Mrs Helen Singleton
• Mrs Christine Landess (Co-opted)
• Maj Huw Bell
• Mr Tim Cole
• Ms Elspeth Duemmer-Wrigley

Absent

• Flt Lt Steve Griffiths
• Sqn Ldr (Retd) Mike Chambers MBE (Co-opted)
• Mr Craig Gadd (Co-opted)
• Mr Andrew Palmer (Co-opted)
• Mr Nick Mitchell (Co-opted)
• Mrs Yvonne MacDonald

1. General items:

a. Introductions and apologies:

The Chair, Alex Baxter welcomed members to the meeting and noted apologies as above. He stated that his priority for this meeting was to progress preparation of the draft of the Y&H VAPC Annual report.

The Minister’s priorities for the report were reiterated to the meeting:

• Understanding the level of awareness of the Armed Forces Covenant and the Armed Forces Community at the local and regional level, in particular among those captured by the new Covenant Duty;

and

• How local Armed Forces Charities are operating at the local and regional level and what impact they are making, including with statutory providers and with one another?

b. Minutes of the Last Meeting/ Actions with VAPC

There was a correction to the minutes of the last meeting on 13th February 2023 raised by

Iain Burnside:

Within item 5 of the minutes, he wished to make it clear that his criticism was not intended for the Chair of the last meeting of the Health and Wellbeing sub-group (H&W SG), Alan Finnegan, but rather with the link into the National Chairs VAPC Committee (NCVC) via the Chair of Chairs of NCVC, also a member of the H&W SG. It was this link that was not functional and in his opinion, led to the folding of the H&W SG. With this correction accepted, the minutes were approved.

Actions were as follows:

1. 2c. CM (Sec) will circulate details of allocation to members to confirm arrangements and will subsequently provide updated LA poc details. Confirmed in Feb/ Mar 23 by email.

2. 1. Chris Nolan, Iain Burnside and Chris Mason (Y&H informal H&W sub-group) will put together a plan for the Chair with suggestions as to how to progress this and other H&W work. Ongoing, Chair liaising with NCVC. National SGs to undergo a re-design. [discussed further at this meeting]
3. 1. Chris Nolan (Vice-chair) will liaise with Guy Benson to see how we can assist with the aims and work of the VCHA, particularly in respect of positive encouragement to regional NHS Trusts and also in their aim to take this work out into the private healthcare sector and nursing home fields. No action from VCHA end.

4. 8a. John Topping will source and distribute the results of the APPG Veterans Survey via the secretary. Link circulated to members by email.

5. 8b. Chris Mason (Sec) to compile a newsletter format to trial. As others have discovered before, it is hard to prioritise and/ or save up material to then forward.

2. Feedback and updates

The Chair reported that to his knowledge the “VAPC Private Members Bill” should come into Law before Parliament’s summer recess.

3. Annual Report development and preparation

a. Introduction and general direction

The Chair, Alex Baxter stated that he would wish to have our draft report ready by mid-July.

b. Member feedback from local areas and discussion

(i) The first part of the Minister’s question, i.e. re the AF Covenant:

Two written submissions have been received and were copied to the agenda document for other members to read. The Chair thanked the members involved for their efforts in producing/ obtaining these. They will be utilised to inform our report.

Action: John Topping volunteered to recirculate our recent letter and question to Local Authorities AF Covenant officers to seek any further responses to inform our report.

In addition, we have received the minutes of the Sheffield AF Covenant meeting from Nov 2022.

Members reported on their areas and in addition where they had some knowledge:

Good practice was reported from several areas, including Doncaster, North Lincolnshire, York, Hull & East Riding, Bradford. Some areas seem to have taken a backward step, NE Lincs, Rotherham, and the newly formed North Yorkshire amalgamation of smaller district councils. Discussion raised the prospect that this was since the Covenant Duty came into action.

(ii) Second part of the question regarding AF Charities:

A round table discussion raised the following issues:

• Following recent changes to both organisations there are some confusions and questions regarding the interface between RBL and SSAFA, their individual structural set-ups and how they each engage in case support.
• The changes in RBL welfare support are of concern to several members.
• Concerns regarding the functioning of the regulation processes of COBSEO and how they resolve problems occurring between charities.

Chris Nolan (Vice-chair) will put together the structural draft of our report and circulate it to members soon.

John Topping raised the relatively recently released APPG Veterans Survey results and if they should form part of our reporting? Accepting that this was a national survey which creates difficulties for us as a regional body, he made it clear that he has recently brought the survey to the attention of his local MP (Mr Julian Smith MP Skipton & Ripon) who has stated that he will investigate the matter further.

c. Actions

(i) Chris Nolan (Vice-chair) will put together the structural draft of our report and circulate it to members soon.

(ii) A one-item Zoom meeting of the Y&H VAPC will take place on either 7th or 14th August to discuss the report at that stage. Chair and Vice-chair will decide on date and time and communicate these to members.

4. Health Update

a. (i) Sea King Update:

Chris Nolan (Vice-chair) reported that he has unearthed significantly more information of concern, once realising that within FoI procedures, some information can only be accessed via a specific “disclosure only on request” process. He reports that the asbestos issue is now much wider within UK AF than for Sea King alone – he will forward a link to members regarding all MOD assets, platforms and systems identified that carry an asbestos risk. His understanding is that MOD are creating a register of these, but the plan for SPs/ Veterans potentially exposed is not yet clear.

Chris detailed some of the research he has been involved in with respect to asbestosis/ mesothelioma and the increased awareness of risk of secondary exposure in families as a result of laundering contaminated clothing etc.

Reference was made to the fact that Y&H VAPC have raised concerns regarding the health risks to veterans from asbestos exposure multiple times in previous reports without apparent action. In the civilian world the UNITE union have been pro-active in this respect for their membership producing positive results. It was discussed that VETS UK should take ownership of this problem in the veteran space, but Alex Baxter (Chair) reported that recent changes have directed that MOD have responsibility for veterans in this respect.

(ii) Demise of the National Health & wellbeing Subgroup (NH&WSG):

No action was taken to action point 2 (action matrix above) from our February meeting, but in discussion we accept that several committee members have in fact for some time been informally acting as a Y&H VAPC H&W SG. A decision was made to formalise this arrangement and formally report back to this committee as a SG. Alex Baxter (Chair) will inform the next NCVC that we have done this in the absence of similar activity at a national level. It was agreed that where necessary we will escalate matters via our Chair to the NCVC or the Chair can act via his means of direct access to the Minister if appropriate. The initial composition of the Y&H H&WSG will be Chris Nolan, Iain Burnside, Norman Turnbull and Chris Mason, but all members are invited to contribute.

It was decided that we will initially collate our main areas of concern and then seek to prioritise them and devise plans to investigate/ action further to benefit our veterans. The initial areas discussed today are:

Sea King/ Asbestos issues, hearing loss, PTSD, “positive healthcare – early intervention”, MH issues in the CJS and alleged poor performance of VETS UK medical examiners.

The Y&H H&WSG will report back to the next quarterly Y&H VAPC meeting.

ACTION: Chris Mason (Sec) will write to members to seek views on what should be the initial priorities of the Y&H H&WSG and then to convene a Zoom meeting to take forward.

b. Veterans in the Criminal Justice System

Two case summaries were brought to the attention of the Committee by John Topping and Iain Burnside and were discussed at this point as they relate to mental health issues. The first involved a vexatious complaint by a neighbour and the second an individual with severe PTSD reacting in a way to a perceived physical threat that led to police involvement and criminal charges. What both cases had in common was the police response and the lack of relevant policies at an appropriate stage to identify a vulnerable veteran. It was suggested that Op NOVA processes only come into play after a delay of days or even longer (post custodial sentence!) and miss the opportunity to support and intervene at the start of the CJS process, when the need for help is greatest and likely most useful.

The discussion moved on to the more general picture of regional Police Service policies and awareness of vulnerable veterans whom they encounter. John Topping has been investigating this via FOI requests. The Surrey Police Service have excellent policy and procedures, but more generally nationwide possibly up to 95% of Services do not. Although out of our area, there was concern that the trend may be for the police to not want engagement in situations involving Mental Health issues as the recent reporting of the Metropolitan Police’s pending policy suggests.

John Topping has also brought this matter to the attention of his MP (Julian Smith as above) who has said that he will investigate further.

Action: To be further discussed at the Y&H H&WSG.

5. Any other business

None.

6. Next meeting

The next meeting will be 18 September 2023, location to follow. There will also be a Zoom meeting on either 7 or 14 August 2023 to discuss our Annual Report. More details of both meetings will be circulated when available.

Annex

Information relating to section 4a Sea King Update:

• https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/asbestos-in-defence-equipment-platforms-buildings-and-infrastructure

• The relevant Freedom of Information references are: 2019/02887 and 2023/03691.